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Socoder -> Handheld Coding -> Who codes on/for Nintendo DS?

Posted : Friday, 12 October 2007, 15:57
spinal
I'm just wondering, because I feel bad pestering Jay all of the time with what usually end up being really simple problems. Also It would be good to work with others who are just starting out on the DS so I don't feel so stupid asking those simple questions.

-=-=-
Download ''Don't Flip Out!'' Directly to your OUYA! (Click Here).
Posted : Friday, 12 October 2007, 15:58
Jayenkai
I do!!!


Posted : Friday, 12 October 2007, 16:32
mike_g
I don't, but it sounds like fun. I cant see myself buying a DS, but I have an old SP kicking about somewhere. Maybe I'll see if I can get hold of a writeable cartridge for it sometime.
Posted : Saturday, 13 October 2007, 13:55
rockford
I really want to get into coding games for the DS, so if anyone wants a learning partner, then I'm your guy! I've very little C++ experience, but I've coded many, many games in various other languages from AMOS to BlitzMax, with lots of Div, Blitz and PlayBasic in between. In fact I recently won the Retro Remakes P&C challenge with my "Off THe Mortal Coil" game (cheers for the bug report Jayenkai).

I did a puzzle game in Blitz that I'd love to port onto DS and it should work well.

I have a DS and an R4 if I need to test stuff on a real machine.
Posted : Saturday, 13 October 2007, 14:35
spinal
Well I guess the first step is to get hold of devkitpro and get coding. I also use palib, it has a whole bunch of useful functions for gfx and sound and whatnot.

-=-=-
Download ''Don't Flip Out!'' Directly to your OUYA! (Click Here).
Posted : Saturday, 13 October 2007, 15:18
Afr0

I really want to get into coding games for the DS, so if anyone wants a learning partner, then I'm your guy! I've very little C++ experience, but I've coded many, many games in various other languages from AMOS to BlitzMax


Not to be rude, but that's a bit like saying that you wanna drive a passenger airplane, but you've only ever driven taxis to and from the airport! There's a shitload of difference between most BASIC-like languages and C (which is what's used to program the DS; Not C++). However, if you are really, really motivated, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to master it. Just give yourself alot of time and be patient.

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Afr0 Games

Project Dollhouse on Github - Please fork!
Posted : Saturday, 13 October 2007, 15:50
mike_g
I have seen some of the stuff that rockford has made, and if he can do that then I'm sure he can get his head around C/C++. Its not as incredibly complex as you seem to want to make out, especially if you have a couple of useful libraries to work with.
Posted : Saturday, 13 October 2007, 16:40
Jayenkai
"(cheers for the bug report Jayenkai)."

Wha..?

Aaaah! You're that same guy as what that other guy is that isn't called you but is you!
'ello you!

Afr0, seriously, that's a really terrible analogy!

If anything his use of BB/B3D and BlitzMax has pretty much prepared him for most things that C can throw at him. It'd be more like flying a harrier jump jet, but wanting to fly an airliner.
It's the same sort of thing, but all the buttons are in the wrong places, and god only knows what you're supposed to do with the strings...

And don't worry about "Proper C!"
If you want to use C like you use Blitz, go right ahead and bring all your buggy Basic habits along with you. C can cope with most "messy" coding better than people give it credit for.

Just.. If you can avoid strings, do!

As Spinal suggests, download DevKitPro, then PA_Lib, then install in that order.
Head into the PA_Lib examples directory, and you should be able to work things out for yourself, if not..
..
I keep saying I'll write a tutorial on all this. If you can't manage it, let me know, and I'll get off my arse and do that tutorial!

-=-=-
''Load, Next List!''
Posted : Saturday, 13 October 2007, 16:47
mike_g
In C++ you can manipulate strings in a very similar way to Blitz. A lot of work has gone into abstracting strings from a character array. I made my own string class in C++ which was pretty pointless really, but with a little tweaking all the functions can be made to run in C. I guess I might post it in the code snippets section in case anyone finds a use for it.
Posted : Sunday, 14 October 2007, 02:47
Afr0
And don't worry about "Proper C!"
If you want to use C like you use Blitz, go right ahead and bring all your buggy Basic habits along with you. C can cope with most "messy" coding better than people give it credit for.


That's actually terrible advice! One of the largest and easiest pitfalls to slip into for people starting up with new languages, is expecting to be able to code like they did in their old language with their new language. Whenever you learn a new language, you have to wipe your mind completely free of things like coding style (I.E indentation, spacing etc.), debugging methods, syntax (usually not in terms of basic arithmetic operators and such, because those are usually pretty much the same, but certainly in terms of how descriptive a language is and such (C, for instance, is a very descriptive language, which means you have to, in most cases, try to get rid of the habbit most BB/B3D users seems to have of trying to put everything belonging to an application into 1 gigantomongous file, and design the application in general based on that principle. You also have to be very familiar with C's syntax before writing anything huge and/or advanced, because the moment you start copying something out of a book without getting it's meaning, you are absolutely lost, and the same thing goes for using too many advanced and unneccessary syntax 'trixes' in one program, because you'll usually end up going back later on without knowing shite about what the code originally meant.)) ++.

-=-=-
Afr0 Games

Project Dollhouse on Github - Please fork!
Posted : Sunday, 14 October 2007, 06:58
mike_g
I wouldn't recommend coding in C like you would in Blitz. It might be possible to get away with it for little things, but on larger projects you would be likely to end up with a hideous mess. Its definitely a good idea to keep data as localised as possible. That said I still don't know where Afr0 gets this idea that everyone who uses Blitz always codes everything in one huge file o_0
Posted : Sunday, 14 October 2007, 07:27
Jayenkai
I don't mean entirely messily! (And, for reference, If you aren't splitting things up into neat functions, you're about to learn the second you TRY to use C!..)

What I meant was..
Instead of doing "Standard C" and ending up with bizarre lines of garbled mess, you can do things "Blitz-like" and keep understanding it the way you always have.

You know.. Where you can grab the scrollbar, flick through your code, and instantly find the little bit you need.

I mean, flick through hoboben's String To Uppercase function, and look at all the varying degrees of readability in the included source.

Some of that, you can get in an instant. Other bits are single line messy horrible lines of gunk.

IMO, that has no place in my code. If I can't flick/find/tweak then what's the point in having it there?

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''Load, Next List!''
Posted : Monday, 15 October 2007, 05:03
Afr0
That said I still don't know where Afr0 gets this idea that everyone who uses Blitz always codes everything in one huge file o_0














Ooh, ooh, this one's by you, mike_g! (Not to diss the quality of the final product or anything, which actually turned out very nice)



|edit| As a matter of fact I am not trying to diss any of these authors or their code, I just don't see the need for fitting everything into one file. Maybe it's because of the general horrible standard on most of the 'IDE's that have been released with any given version of Blitz. I mean, up until BlitzMax, they didn't even support project files, and the Blitzmax 'IDE' didn't even manage to do that properly! |edit|

-=-=-
Afr0 Games

Project Dollhouse on Github - Please fork!
Posted : Monday, 15 October 2007, 05:40
mike_g
oh, ooh, this one's by you, mike_g! (Not to diss the quality of the final product or anything, which actually turned out very nice)

Well I coded it as a load of separate files, then merged them into one before creating the exe so that the final game didn't need all the include files. Thats an annoying thing about Blitz executables.
Posted : Monday, 15 October 2007, 05:53
Jayenkai
Who would bother to cut out small functions and include stuff when you're only coding that tiny amount?
Really, That's minuscule coding in the grand scheme of things.
If you want a really good example of coding that really should be split into lots of includes, but never really was..

Green's 8-bit Tiny Collection.

7751 lines
164780 characters.
28 functions
One BB file!
And a Whole Lot of Labels!


-=-=-
''Load, Next List!''
Posted : Monday, 15 October 2007, 11:15
rockford
Cheers Afro :S

I said I have little experience in C++, I didn't say I had NONE. I certainly have the dedication and motivation to create games, seeing as I have completed over 50 in various languages throughout my coding history (since 1984) - both remakes and original games - under my real name Ian Price and rockford.

I know a BASIC language is nothing like C or C++. How 'king stupid do you take me for? I don't want to drive a jet plane, only create a game for the DS and someone has to start somewhere - if everyone listened to your "expert" opinion nobody would ever strive to achieve anything.

The basics of all lanugages are pretty similar, so I don't expect it to be totally alien (I don't expect an easy ride either, but I'm prepared), but come on guy!

I was asking if anyone wanted to give assistance, a partner that was in a similar position - I wasn't and won't ask you. A wonderful welcome, I'm sure....

Spinal stated "It would be good to work with others who are just starting out on the DS so I don't feel so stupid asking those simple questions." I thought I would reply, to that directly - not expecting a shit response like yours afro. So I'm a noob at coding for the DS. Big deal. We all have to start somewhere.

Cheers to everyone else for the info though
Posted : Monday, 15 October 2007, 14:30
Afr0
I don't want to drive a jet plane, only create a game for the DS and someone has to start somewhere - if everyone listened to your "expert" opinion nobody would ever strive to achieve anything.


It seems you're making it out to look as though I think I'm some sort of expert on C/C++, and well above everyone else. Well, I'm not.
I tried going from BASIC languages to C++ myself, and I only ever got as far as to C#. In my analogy, that's like flying a two-seater Cessna. A step up from driving a taxi, but still nothing like 'the real thing'. I just thought I'd give you a heads up, is all.

-=-=-
Afr0 Games

Project Dollhouse on Github - Please fork!
Posted : Monday, 15 October 2007, 16:33
Jayenkai
OK, I've added a small Jumpstart tutorial, here, if anyone would like to attempt the most basic of DS coding
It should get your set up, ready for following all the tutorials and things, but without having to read through pages of "C is a language. We write things in languages. For is a loop!" crap.

If anyone has any issues getting started, let me know!

Oh, and one last thing. If you already have a C devkit set up on your system. .. Beware that occasionally C's can clash and break each other!

-=-=-
''Load, Next List!''