death of cobra basic - time for a new language

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Socoder -> On Topic -> death of cobra basic - time for a new language
Mon, 14 May 2012, 07:48
waroffice	Afternoon gents, I have been away from the scene for a while now and think it is about time I got ym coding back on track. In this time however cobra basic is no longer being developed, as it is not quite polished I think I will try a new language. but where to start? I want to do mainly 2d games, I own blitz3d but was thinking something like C++ either from scratch or using some sort of game engine. I feel I should really go for C++ and finally get it learnt, or maybe go for C#? What does the community use? should I stick with Blitz? thanks also this is my new toy.
Mon, 14 May 2012, 09:11
Afr0	My first instinct is to recommend C#, which is what I use. It has lots of engines and whatnot available, and most of the boilerplate code you could think of has already been written for it. Then again, C++ isn't really that hard to learn. I'm not sure where you are at as a programmer, but C++ might be worth the extra effort depending on what you want to do. If I were you I'd try out both and use what I feel comfortable with. -=-=- Afr0 Games Project Dollhouse on Github - Please fork!
Mon, 14 May 2012, 09:37
waroffice	I think I will take the plunge and go for C++ and find myself a good tutorial. I really want to program my 2D Zelda style RPG without restriction. boilerplate code? not heard that term
Mon, 14 May 2012, 12:19
Afr0	Boilerplate code -=-=- Afr0 Games Project Dollhouse on Github - Please fork!
Mon, 14 May 2012, 14:44
waroffice	Oh I see. Stumbled across XNA, will give that a whirl for now
Tue, 15 May 2012, 22:03
JL235	These days cloud based is the direction things are going. It's quite simple, people can just visit and it'll just work. So I'd recommend taking a look at JavaScript or CofferScript, using HTML canvas or WebGL (or one of the many frameworks, like three.js or Raphael). For now you could build it entirely within one page, and switch to start adding server stuff in the future.
Wed, 16 May 2012, 00:37
Afr0	These days cloud based is the direction things are going. It's quite simple, people can just visit and it'll just work. Only partially true. Blizzard just released Diablo III, and though it requires you to be connected to the BNet servers, it is technically a single-player game written as a standard client (not a webpage). Max Payne 3 will be released May 18th, and it is a completely standard program with multiplayer capabilities. Saints Row the Third was just released, it is also a standard application. I'd actually say "MMO is the way things are going". Star Wars The Old Republic was released this Christmas, and Mists of Pandaria for WoW is expected to release this Christmas. Guild Wars 2 is expected to release this summer. Eve Online will have a new expansion named Inferno released on May 22. Funcom's new MMO The Secret World will be released on June 19th. Mind you, these are all released as standard desktop clients, most of them written in C++. -=-=- Afr0 Games Project Dollhouse on Github - Please fork!
Wed, 16 May 2012, 07:47
waroffice	once thing i noticed with diablo III this morning was, if my internet is laggy the game is, even tho i was in a single player game. I don't mind tho, means less/no cheaters and I get 80mb FTTC shortly
Wed, 16 May 2012, 08:10
JL235	@Afr0, that is a strawman argument. Starcraft 2 being written with C++, does not mean JS isn't used.. For indie games, tonnes of devs are moving to use HTML5 and JS, and tonnes of big studios are using it for side projects. Bethesda even launched the Wolfenstein 3D in a browser just last week. It means don't have to run a download or installer. Much more friendly. Don't underestimate how big the ability to play instantly is. At least, that's my two cents. Your also going to have issues with lag regardless of if it's C++ or JS. if you aren't planning an online game, just a single player game, you also don't have to talk to the server the whole time. You can just send the whole game down when it loads, and thats it, then they start playing.
Wed, 16 May 2012, 08:25
HoboBen	JL is obviously biased, considering his business model relies on this! -=-=- blog \| work \| code \| more code
Wed, 16 May 2012, 08:40
JL235	Meh; if I was being biased, I'd suggest PMC instead, which I haven't. But I do love JS and HTML5. I think it rocks, it's easily the best cross-platform platform right now, and that's why I use it. Even Crytek, well known for only doing big triple-A game development, are investing in using JS/webGL in projects.
Wed, 16 May 2012, 09:29
Afr0	@Afr0, that is a strawman argument. Starcraft 2 being written with C++, does not mean JS isn't used.. For indie games, tonnes of devs are moving to use HTML5 and JS, and tonnes of big studios are using it for side projects. Bethesda even launched the Wolfenstein 3D in a browser just last week. I didn't even mention Starcraft 2! Though essentially we are thinking about two different segments. If you intend to target casual gamers, you can stick with web-based technologies. If you intend to target hardcore gamers, learn C++ or even use something like Unity. -=-=- Afr0 Games Project Dollhouse on Github - Please fork!
Wed, 16 May 2012, 09:31
Afr0	I think it rocks, it's easily the best cross-platform platform right now, and that's why I use it. What? Are you saying that C++ or even C# isn't cross-platform? -=-=- Afr0 Games Project Dollhouse on Github - Please fork!
Wed, 16 May 2012, 11:29
shroom_monk	If you want to make games with C++ you'll need libraries - do the libraries not depend on platform, or am I mistaken? -=-=- A mushroom a day keeps the doctor away... Keep It Simple, Shroom!
Wed, 16 May 2012, 11:58
Afr0	If you want to make games with C++ you'll need libraries No you won't! Using a library is a choice you make, nothing's stopping you from writing your own device drivers. Besides, there's lots of libraries out there that'll provide crossplatform support for anything. Boost and OpenGL comes to mind. -=-=- Afr0 Games Project Dollhouse on Github - Please fork!
Wed, 16 May 2012, 16:00
JL235	Ok, Diablo 3 then. I misread, but the argument is still the same. I was just putting JS out there as an option, as these days it's mature enough to use, and has some benefits over other stuff (and drawbacks too). Ultimately, none of these languages are perfect, and you certainly shouldn't build a game based on the language. Game priorities first, language second.
Wed, 16 May 2012, 18:54
steve_ancell	Afr0 No you won't! Using a library is a choice you make, nothing's stopping you from writing your own device drivers. Also known as trying to re-invent the wheel and causing premature baldness. But OK if you like that sort of thing.
Thu, 17 May 2012, 04:21
waroffice	Afr0 No you won't! Using a library is a choice you make, nothing's stopping you from writing your own device drivers. Also known as trying to re-invent the wheel and causing premature baldness. But OK if you like that sort of thing. I can safely say I have never attempted to write a device driver, but my hair is falling out! JL, when i first started writing games I would chose a language I was comfortable with and then realise it couldn't do what I would like it to. This is why I have chosen C++ but will have a quick look at C#/XNA when I get time. I have got my self some books coming so will get a helping hand.
Thu, 17 May 2012, 07:15
waroffice	my books arrived. the first focuses on c++ and directx and the second is the next steps to making a 2d game engine
Thu, 17 May 2012, 08:40
Afr0	JL, when i first started writing games I would chose a language I was comfortable with and then realise it couldn't do what I would like it to. I know what you mean. C# more or less does what I want it to, but for Project Dollhouse I've been forced to stick with XNA 3.1, because XNA 4.0 doesn't support loading BMPs from memory. If at some point I feel upgrading to XNA 4.0 becomes an absolute must, I might try writing my own parser that is compatible, but not having to do such things is extremely nice. -=-=- Afr0 Games Project Dollhouse on Github - Please fork!
Thu, 17 May 2012, 14:39
CodersRule	Ah, yes. I own that first book, waroffice. Is that the one we were using on SoCoder when we tried to start up that collaborative learning thing? I don't remember. I have the first edition of the book. An interesting book, to say the least.
Fri, 18 May 2012, 02:39
waroffice	I can't put it down, only problem is im meant to be working! ps: any complaints about my sig size?
Fri, 18 May 2012, 14:55
Stealth	The web isn't ready to handle intensive 3D. For now, you're stuck with languages that can do rapid low level processing. The web might catch up eventually. -=-=- Quit posting and try Google.
Fri, 18 May 2012, 18:58
steve_ancell	waroffice ps: any complaints about my sig size? Na!, I think my screen and internet connection can handle it.
Sun, 10 Jun 2012, 11:25
Hotshot	Why couldnt Graham K hire programmer or someone to help me to speed his Cobra development !