Programmable Games

-=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- (c) WidthPadding Industries 1987 0\|49\|0 -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=- -=+=-
Socoder -> Concept/Design -> Programmable Games
Sun, 26 Apr 2009, 23:34
JL235	I really like the idea of a programmable game. Somewhere as a mix between custom mods and those programmable robots games. But I am thinking more where you can play normally and program elements in game for you to use or that will help you. Like programmable team mates or weapons. So my question is given enough time and resources, what programming oriented game would you design and how would it work?
Mon, 27 Apr 2009, 00:03
shroom_monk	Well, I had been toying with an idea a while back for a kind of programmable RTS with robots, where you would design and program different robots using flowcharts, and then build your base yourself. You could choose what to build, but once the robots had spawned, they were completely beyond your control. Never actually got anywhere with this idea, but I do plan to use it in the (far) future. -=-=- A mushroom a day keeps the doctor away... Keep It Simple, Shroom!
Mon, 27 Apr 2009, 04:20
steve_ancell	My nephew plays a game named RoBlox that has some kind of scripting built into it, is that she sort of thing you mean Joe ?
Mon, 27 Apr 2009, 08:41
Phoenix	I think Agent Smith had an idea about this some time ago. I've been thinking about these kinds of programming games as well, but haven't really gotten any idea worthy of pursuit.
Mon, 27 Apr 2009, 09:20
Jayenkai	In my head, the word "Game" is a huge obstacle. I used to love playing with Logo. Logo was fun! But, I wouldn't call that a game, and I honestly just can't imagine anything that would be Logo + Game. .. .. .. Actually, yeah, I can, but it wouldn't be very fun. Essentially it's Logo, but in a maze, and you'd have to figure out the script to get the pointer through the maze. It'd take ages to get it right, and really wouldn't be a lot of fun. .. ... Damnit, I gotta go make that, now! -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
Mon, 27 Apr 2009, 10:19
Jayenkai	Gotta get ready for work, but here's about an hour or so's worth of logo.. Graphics 800,600,32,2 bbuf=CreateImage(800,600) SetBuffer BackBuffer() Type mand Field cm$ Field par$ End Type Global TCom Global com.mand Type ack Field T Field p Field n End Type Repeat Read in$ If in$<>"SCRIPTEND" Then AddCommand in$ Until in$="SCRIPTEND" Data "Loop 2" Data " Color aa0000" Data " Loop 36" Data " Forward 250" Data " Left 190" Data " EndLoop" Data " Left 60" Data " Color aa00" Data " Loop 36" Data " Forward 250" Data " Left 190" Data " EndLoop" Data " Left 60" Data " Color aa" Data " Loop 36" Data " Forward 250" Data " Left 190" Data " EndLoop" Data " Left 60" Data "EndLoop" Data "SCRIPTEND" RunScript() Function AddCommand(txt$) TCom=TCom+1 com.mand=New mand com\cm$=Trim$(splittext$(txt$," ",1,0)) com\par$=Trim$(splittext$(txt$," ",2,0)) End Function Function RunScript() px#=400:py#=300:ang#=0 pendown=1 ClsColor 255,255,255 Cls Color 0,0,0 Delete Each ack TStk=0 spos=0 Repeat GetLine(spos) cmd$=Upper$(com\cm$) parT$=com\par$ par=Int(ParT$) If Left$(Upper$(ParT),5)="RAND(" A$=Mid$(ParT,6,Len(part)-6) B=Int(splittext$(a$,",",1)) C=Int(splittext$(a$,",",2)) par=Rand(b,c) EndIf nextline=spos+1 Select cmd$ Case "LOOP" st.ack=New ack:st\t=1:st\p=spos+1:st\n=par:TStk=TStk+1 Case "FORWARD","FORWARDS","FWD","F" wx=px:wy=py px=px+Sin(ang)par:py=py-Cos(ang)par If pendown=1 Then Line wx,wy,px,py Case "BACKWARD","BACKWARDS","BCK","B" wx=px:wy=py px=px+Sin(ang+180)par:py=py-Cos(ang+180)par If pendown=1 Then Line wx,wy,px,py Case "RIGHT","RGHT","RHT","RGT","RT","R" ang=ang+par Case "LEFT","LFT","LT","L" ang=ang-par Case "ENDLOOP","DO" st.ack=Last ack If TStk>0 If st\t=1 nextline=st\p st\n=st\n-1 If st\n=0 Then Delete st.ack:TStk=TStk-1:nextline=spos+1 EndIf EndIf Case "COLOR","COLOUR","COL" Color 0,0,Hex2Int(ParT$) Case "PENUP" pendown=0 Case "PENDOWN" pendown=1 End Select Flip False Delay 2 spos=nextline If spos>TCom Then fin=1 If KeyDown(1) Then fin=1 Until fin=1 End Function Function Hex2Int(hx$) out=0 For n=1 To Len(hx$) out=out Shl 4 letr$=Upper$(Mid$(hx$,n,1)) Select letr$ Case "A" val=10 Case "B" val=11 Case "C" val=12 Case "D" val=13 Case "E" val=14 Case "F" val=15 Default val=Int(letr$) End Select out=out+val Next Return out End Function Function GetLine(n) com.mand=First mand If n<TCom For m=1 To n com.mand=After com.mand Next EndIf End Function Function SplitText$(in$,Split$,e,alsospace=1) ;Splits text... Local out$="" Local start=1 Local nomore=0 Local shift Local size in$=Trim(in$) e=e-1 For shift=1 To e If Instr(in$,Split$,start)+1<=nstart Then nomore=1 If Instr(in$,Split$,start)+1>nstart Then nstart=Instr(in$,Split$,start)+1 If AlsoSpace=1 Then If Instr(in$," ",start)+1<nstart And Instr(in$," ",start)>0 Then nstart=Instr(in$," ",start)+1 start=nstart Next size=(Instr(in$,Split$,start))-start If AlsoSpace=1 Then If (Instr(in$," ",start))-start<size And Instr(in$," ",start)>0 Then size=(Instr(in$," ",start))-start out$=Mid$(in$,start,size) If nomore=1 Then out$="-+-" Return out$ End Function --v -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
Mon, 27 Apr 2009, 10:56
oscar	what about something along the lines of a deus ex style game.... but instead you're an elite hacker who's trying to uncover some conspiracy... it wouldn't be so much 'programming' as having to write scripts to get past the security & access information, etc? you could make it more programming like by maybe sticking routines in a reusable zone... say the commands you'd use to get the username and password from the servers could be stored for later use.
Mon, 27 Apr 2009, 11:27
spinal	logo... wasn't that used in the old days for controlling pen-holding robots? ...turtles? -=-=- Check out my excellent homepage!
Mon, 27 Apr 2009, 12:44
steve_ancell	Yeah spinal, it sure was. I remember Logo when I was a kid. There was also a version that put the turtle on the screen, instead of having to build a robot.
Mon, 27 Apr 2009, 13:17
Jayenkai	The main issue is, of course, you can't make the user's job TOO difficult. For every element you add, there's going to be a whole extra level of complexity. It might be fun for us to build a whole scripting engine/language, but on the user's side, that's too complex! With Oscar's suggestion. Dang, you could code that for 100 years, and still not have everything half-done! Whatever you can think of, a hacker would be 2 or 3 steps ahead. Does your game just Stop!? Limitations should hold things down, and keep the player within the realm of do-ability. I'm thinking something like Cannon Fodder/Syndicate, but where, instead of clicking areas with the mouse, you'd give orders via a set of commands. -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
Mon, 27 Apr 2009, 19:25
JL235	My view on this was around the idea that programming would help you in the game, but not solve or do the game for you. If you did not program then you still can play and complete the game, it's just not so easy. Initialliy I was thinking something like an MMO where you would have some component in the game you can customize through programming. It would very much be your component that behaves and acts just how you programmed it. Like an AI player who fights along side you. I like Shrooms idea of a programmable RTS. Maybe something along the idea of giving the player hooks and an already fully functioning AI that they could build on top of. There would need to be checks too to ensure people don't cheat, but essentially some way to add their own strategies to the existing AI code. Steve, that's kinda what I was thinking. But in their own words there are no goals, it looks like a customizable/scriptable multiplayer game environment, where your programming builds the game rather then building to help play or solve the game. In a sense like Logo. A game where you program to help you play were my innitial thoughts. But all these ideas sound very time consuming and complex. With the RTS game again, if you want to improve units you need to really sit down and plan out how you will implemenet your additiional code. So my next question, would it be possible to create a game that was scriptable/playable with a real-time programming language? Where you could change/script in real-time as you were playing the game? I presume the programming language would need to be very simple in order to achieve this.
Mon, 27 Apr 2009, 19:35
oscar	@jay: i was thinking more of fake hacking kind of like thered be a set of pre-written commands that each computer terminal could use and only those commands. so it'd be more like basic command line stuff. EG: cd c:\system_stuff dir echo usernames-file login username1 passwordInFile and only a certain combinations of commands could possibly work... there was a game sort of similar back in the day but it was all just command line. There wasn't a story or anything behind it, it was just fake hacking. @jl235: I think it is possible, To make it lasting however may bea bit more difficult and it'd be processor intensive as you'd basically have to interpret the code that tells each unit what to do every time the unit wanted to do something. Perhaps rather than make it straight out programming, you could make it point and click interchangeable modules. Like say you're infantry units seem to be a bit scared, you could swap their cautious behavious for outright recklessness by clicking a couple of buttons
Mon, 27 Apr 2009, 23:04
JL235	I don't think performance is much of an issue, lots of games are scripted and you need only need to parse the programming when it's changed. You could even have a JIT compiler to turn it to native code in the background. It might be an issue though if the user writes bad or slow code, so some sort of scheduling system might be needed to ensure that if a unit went into an infinite loop then it only affects that one unit. Oscar Perhaps rather than make it straight out programming, you could make it point and click interchangeable modules. Like say you're infantry units seem to be a bit scared, you could swap their cautious behavious for outright recklessness by clicking a couple of buttons That's kind of what I'm kinda moving towards. Not a complete programmable game, but some hooks to allow the user to add their own custom strategies and macros. I think a visual high-level programming language (built from GUI widgets rather then text) would also work better. Another game that might work well would be a tactical-FPS. Again to help input detailed custom behaviors for your men on the different missions.