Forum - Socoder

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Socoder -> Off Topic -> Monkey 2 - Eclectic Blogger, Too
Tue, 02 Feb 2016, 02:53
therevillsgames	A new Monkey2 site... Linkage
Tue, 02 Feb 2016, 02:53
GfK	Wish he'd talk English. Just read the "roadmap" and no idea what half of it even means. On further reading, can't help thinking he's wasting far too much time on minutiae - all this nonsense about "fibers"... is that the sort of thing Monkey-X was really missing? Like, way up the priority list? Then he says at the bottom; "Finally, thereâ€™s a catch: fibers donâ€™t currently work in emscripten". Honestly... no clue what he's on about! I get the impression that he's googling "programming fad", and putting everything in that comes up in the results, rather than dealing with priority stuff. Also you can't help thinking that Monkey 2 is tantamount to digging the grave for Monkey-X, as Monkey-X did for Blitzmax, and Blitzmax did for Blitzplus, and Blitzplus did for Blitzbasic. Don't want to be a negative nelly but when he says "No projected completion dates (itâ€™s done when itâ€™s done etc)" and is receiving payments from Patreon or whatever it's called, I'd personally like something a bit more concrete (even if it's badly-mixed concrete that takes a week to set). Losing me already. You can keep on with the develop/abandon cycle and expect the masses to just blindly follow you, waving their rupees in the air. He's going badly wrong there.
Tue, 02 Feb 2016, 09:34
Hotshot	Moneky 2? it seem lots deeper and lots more commands to learn than before I don't know if this is good things but see how goes...
Tue, 02 Feb 2016, 10:38
Dabz	Here's how it is for me... Now, I supported Mr S on his little adventure, so, I guess I have earned a little bit of a right to have a say, it's not, and it's nothing Mr S hasnt seen from me in relation to my comments at mx.com or bb.com, and this is by no means trashing... It's my view... The big worry for me is, and to be fair, it should be for Mr S too, but... It's just the wrong idea!!! Why? Well, I'll tell you why... Because what he is doing is implementing a language that, in best part... Is already out there a million times over... Yeah, it might be "Blitzy", but who cares... THERE'S STUFF OUT THERE ALREADY THAT CAN DO THIS!!!! In fact, one of my fave languages implements a swathe of MX2 features everyone is getting excited about... That language is vala: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vala_(programming_language) It's a lovely language, loads of editors support it, it's cross platform, a slight pig to set up on Windows( apparently, so is BlitzMax now), but once it's grafting... Dell! So, right, Vala, plenty of support editor wise, plenty of documentation out there (Now)... Released... 10 years ago! So... MX2 is already 10 years out of date and it hasnt even been released yet! Hows that progress? It's not... Let's look at it a bit more then... Then comes the new feature on MX2 from MX1... A proper build system instead of the baked-in one now... Hold the phone... I remember a language that had a great module based build system, cannot remember it's name... Oh wait, yeah... It was sodding BlitzMax which he wrote in TWO THOUSAND AND FIVE!!! So how is reimplementing something that was already there in one previous product be progress? It's not is it... Be fair... It just isnt!!! And here's the beauty... While I was watching the development of it... I spied this:- ..and almost forgot, multidimensional arrays are back, eg: local map:=new Map:Tile[ W,H ] Which, a user replied:- Thanks for the update. Multidimensional arrays sounds good. I was sitting there in disbelief... The thought of a language having multidiemnsional arrays "sounding good"... What? Noooooo, just nooooooo!!!! I replied in the thread:- Not to sound sarcastic, but, erm, yeah... Great! :/ I'm actually a bit depressed with the "update"... Shite with the syntax sugar and all that bollocks, I get that with Vala... I want to know the real deal... First off, what are we looking at here, I see SDL2 in there, which is great, yeah, but, erm, dont bite me or nothing but I can use that with anything, importing libs via <>, erm, great! :/ The whole context of the "update" was regarding html5, which is nice an all... But here's the thing... I want to make games... Why is this better then, and I will say it... Over "Unity"? IMO, and I'm sorry, but the news update was neither mind blowing or technically even a tickle Dabz Which was responded with:- It sounds like you might have the wrong idea about monkey2 - it's a programming language/environment, not a game creator. As such, a lot of its features are indeed related to 'syntactic sugar and all that bollocks'. It's stuff a lot of programmers care about. No... My idea about a BRL product is it being game dev related... That's BRL'd fault, cos I love their old stuff... But, if it is indeed not a game dev related "Game creator" (You can code in Unity as well, so, not all that different, apart from the implementation), and is a "programming language", why the hell write Mojo2... Oh, I know why... Because, it is actually.... Game dev bloody related, not just a "Programming language"... the road map even has this in:- Modules MojoX: Low level, multi API, Vulkan friendly. Supports/emulates â€˜shader fragmentsâ€™, uniform buffers etc. Mojo2D: Similar to mojo2, built on MojoX. Deferred 2d renderer â€“ ie: no Renderer class, just use DrawShadow, DrawLight. Yes, the highlighted modules are Game Dev/Creator based FFS!!!!!!! Anyway, another user chucked this in for good measure:- Why are you even on this forum? Fair comment... Until the same user responded to my post at the bb.com forums saying I had an accurate assessment when I said "You may as well open up Visual Studio and strap SDL to it"! It's just all wrong, everything... I mean, if a highlighted roadmap feature of a new languages IDE is "Auto capitalize (to start with) and then auto complete.", I cannot get all horned up over that for one... Is that the best he can think of? "Oh yes, the IDE will auto-capitalize like... Well, previous IDE's I've wrote" <---- Excellent... Top road map item!!! That shouldnt even be a highlighted roadmap feature, that should just be there anyway, and two, considering I know how to bloody do it in Scintilla and it's as simple as piss, and I'm a bloody plasterer... I just cannot see the horniness to it all!?! From me out looking in, the road map is a bit pap, the language and its creator dont have a clue what the language is going to be, and what for, and I personally think it's all a stumbling about in the dark affair! The whole show is awful to watch from my point of view... That's my 2p worth, I mean, I dont mean him no harm, and wish him all the luck in the world, he's following his path how he wants and, good on him... Unfortunately though... I just cannot see it, and cannot join in on the "Wow, this is gonna be the best thing since peanut m&m's" bandwagon, because of the plain and simple fact there is realllyyyyy nothing new at all! Dabz -=-=- Intel Core i5 6400 2.7GHz, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 (8GB), 8Gig DDR4 RAM, 256GB SSD, 1TB HDD, Windows 10 64bit
Tue, 02 Feb 2016, 11:34
steve_ancell	GfK no idea what half of it even means Me niether. I don't know what fibres are either, the only fibres I know of are the ones that are in textiles and the ones that make us crap easier in the mornings.
Tue, 02 Feb 2016, 11:34
Jayenkai	My main issue isn't the need to start a whole new language. I think, by now, we can all agree that that's what Mark does! He loves writing languages as much as I love writing games using them! I won't complain about that. And I also won't complain about the IDE. I'm comfortable using plain TED, and always have been. Autocomplete can piss off!! My issue is that Mark Alone has a limit, and that limit is "when the LANGUAGE is done." Mark could do with a gamedev sidekick to work on things like proper collision detection, a physics engine, Mod playing, GameCenter/GooglePlay scoreboard stuff, and those shaders we were once promised in Monkey. Mark had a tendency to ignore stuff like that, because he's (rightly so) wrapped up in writing a language. Monkey is a perfectly capable language, and that's as far as Mark usually takes his languages. There needs to be a MarkII -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
Tue, 02 Feb 2016, 11:44
GfK	Autocomplete is a JOY to use! Saves sooo much typing, and you don't have to remember every class, variable, method and function you've ever written. I doubt I'd ever have written anything in Blitzmax if Blide didn't exist. Mark had a tendency to ignore stuff like that, because he's (rightly so) wrapped up in writing a language. He's got a language. Actually, several languages! Why abandon Monkey-X? Why abandon Blitzmax, or any of the others? Languages should continually evolve - not just perform a desk-flip after X years and start from the ground up. Again.
Tue, 02 Feb 2016, 12:02
Jayenkai	I've written about 5 versions of the SpikeDislike engine from scratch.. I've currently started on the 50,000th version of the JNKPlat engine from scratch. It's not about what's already there. It's the thrill of the creation, and Mark obviously gets a kick out of that. -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
Tue, 02 Feb 2016, 12:07
Dabz	I can understand we all have our opinions... It's like toe ball, nobody sees the same game, even though thousands of people do in fact, see the same game! There's individual perspective... My perspective is... There's no need for MX2... Everything it is is out there already! I once read that Mark stopped working on BlitzMax because the rewrite would be too much... If it was too much, then how come a Blitz end user manage to do it... In fact, the same end user literally made BlitzMax what it is... While Mr S was dithering to the 9 people who demanded "Reflection", Brucey was extending BlitzMax with real, actual useful things! Jay is right what he says... MX1 needed another dev member, a Brucey if you will... MX2 will need a Brucey, fortunately for us BlitzMax users, Brucey is probably so deep in his own work with BlitzMax MX2 will struggle... Heck, Brucey even converted Mojo2 to BlitzMax, so you dont even need MX1 nor MX2 to use that... MX2... There is no point in it! Dabz -=-=- Intel Core i5 6400 2.7GHz, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 (8GB), 8Gig DDR4 RAM, 256GB SSD, 1TB HDD, Windows 10 64bit
Tue, 02 Feb 2016, 12:25
Jayenkai	If I were a better "hardcore stuff" coder, then I'd actually like to tackle some of those things myself. Unfortunately, I just don't trust myself to code something that will be used by that many people, in a way that can be understood by even myself I do hope that Mark can find a Mini-Monkey-Maker to help him on his way. But, realistically, he can do whatever he wants, and I'll probably eventually end up using it! MX2 doesn't peek my interest, right now. But then a few years ago I said exactly the same thing about the original Monkey, and was adamant that I'd still be using BlitzMax 5 years down the line. I think we can all agree.. Mark makes good languages! -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
Tue, 02 Feb 2016, 15:13
therevillsgames	I agree with most of whats been said here... I'm just hoping for the best. Mark has said he does want to create a full time job out of this (MX2)... but I cant see how that will happen, unless he starts charging for modules etc.
Tue, 02 Feb 2016, 19:26
steve_ancell	I don't mean to come across as moaning about Monkey as a language, it's just that I really know absolutely fuck-all about fibres.
Tue, 02 Feb 2016, 19:31
steve_ancell	OK, I just read it up on Google... It's a multiple program pointer thing, a bit like a thread but more user managed.
Tue, 02 Feb 2016, 22:49
Dabz	Mark has said he does want to create a full time job out of this (MX2)... but I cant see how that will happen, unless he starts charging for modules etc. I know, I cannot fatham how he can make this affordable in a sense that he can earn a living wage from it... The patreon campaign nets him, what, currently $535.97 a month, $133 a week, about £90 a week in English snots, which rolls in at a working rate of £2.30p/h based on a 39 hour week! And I've noticed just in the last couple of days that total is DOWN by $100 mind! It's not good like! Offtopic... But, I was just looking at GradeAUnderA's patreon campaign... www.patreon.com/gradeaundera?ty=h lol... That's how to do a campaign, the video is brill! Dabz -=-=- Intel Core i5 6400 2.7GHz, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 (8GB), 8Gig DDR4 RAM, 256GB SSD, 1TB HDD, Windows 10 64bit
Wed, 03 Feb 2016, 01:23
GfK	Mark's issue is he doesn't have a head for business and comes off as quite short-sighted. Really he should have had a long-term plan for Blitz since 1999 - a modular language with the ability to bolt on extra features and platforms at a cost to the customer. That way we'd be on Blitz Basic 5 by now. Most of us would have paid for every available extra, and poised with our wallets for the next one, and he wouldn't be scratting about for pocket change on patreon. I don't want to be too critical cos I owe Blitz everything. But I've been saying this for bloody years. \|edit\| Just registered at the site and mentioned a lil security problem on their forum. Not fussed about Monkey 2, like... just don't want any of you gyppos stealing my username.