The cracks widen...

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Socoder -> On Topic -> The cracks widen...
Sat, 24 Dec 2011, 08:31
Jayenkai	The PHP upgrade has caused a lot of little fuckups that I didn't spot. The disconnected MYSQL has always been stupidly slow, and appears to be getting worse. The "server disconnected" message is happening about once a week, to me at least, causing a number of F5's. And then GoDaddy spoils it all by saying something stupid like "we support SOPA".. -=-=- I've been thinking of a complete Redo From Start since last year. There was a groupie PM set up for that very task, and ... well.. a start was made, but it fizzled out fairly quickly. Monetary situation at home is pretty damned fucked up right now, so if a new server was the solution, you'll all be waiting another 6 months. I've gotten to the point (the same one I was at last year, btw) where I'm thinking it may be better to let someone else give this a whirl. After all, it's not like I've had any time at all to piss about with the site, this year. It's been AGameAWeek and iDev pretty much none-stop. So, we'll make it a public topic. The future of things that are, and all that may be. Discuss .. and again, I'd prefer a redo. This site's script/layout/chaos is about 20* more fucked than you all already think it is!! -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
Sat, 24 Dec 2011, 16:33
shroom_monk	So, what, are you suggesting a complete ground-up remake of the site, just an eventual server move, or someone else taking everything over? Personally, I'd have thought it would be easier in any case to peruse the code and tidy it up rather than a fresh rewrite, although I suppose the more accomplished webdevs will have a more informed opinion. But I'm sure quite a few of us could chip in with fixes if it came to that. -=-=- A mushroom a day keeps the doctor away... Keep It Simple, Shroom!
Sat, 24 Dec 2011, 16:39
CodersRule	Perhaps we should take the blasphemous route and use a canned solution... Drupal or SMF perhaps?
Sat, 24 Dec 2011, 16:50
Jayenkai	Over the past few months, I've started to like IP.Board, and was in fact going to install a dummy edition, just a week or two ago, give it a whirl, see if I can smush it into place. Then I went to download it, and noticed the price tag, at which point I went "Well, fuck that, then!" -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
Sat, 24 Dec 2011, 16:59
shroom_monk	To be honest, aside from the (in my experience, at least) occasional server issue, the 'cracks' you talk about aren't site destroying. I don't think the site is anywhere near broken enough from the user's point of view to warrant complete replacement. Even if it's a mess on the inside, it works, doesn't it? And it's not doing anything that will cause it to break in the future, right? -=-=- A mushroom a day keeps the doctor away... Keep It Simple, Shroom!
Sat, 24 Dec 2011, 17:19
Afr0	I'm not going to come with any suggestions. Last time this came about, I suggested we all donated money, which was not supported by anyone, least of all Jay. I was also keen on buying the blitzcoder.com domain, but it never seemed to materialize. -=-=- Afr0 Games Project Dollhouse on Github - Please fork!
Sat, 24 Dec 2011, 18:08
JL235	I would be happy to host SoCoder for a while, if new hosting is needed.
Mon, 26 Dec 2011, 04:10
HoboBen	Jay is going to laugh at this suggestion, and then probably start swearing at me once he realises I'm serious. Release SoCoder's source code, let people hack it a bit and if nothing else come up with a cache system to avoid all the database calls. -=-=- blog \| work \| code \| more code
Mon, 26 Dec 2011, 04:54
JL235	It might be useful making SoCoder open source, but I think only so we had some existing code to take bits from. Otherwise I agree with Jay, that it probably requires an entire re-write. For this it might be nice to rewrite it as an open source project so others can get involved. We could setup a live development server, with an alternative domain, and have the project hosted there publically whilst it is built. SoCoder could link to it in a "this is what we are building to replace SoCoder, go take part!" kind of way (just make a topic with a permalink to it on the front page). People would build the site locally, and the live dev server would automatically sync with the current dev code once a week, or daily. Once it's all complete, we could then migrate the DB content across, and trial it. I could put the general site boiler plate together, I'm imagining Ben and Jay could implement lots of specific difficulties (like file uploading), and Stealth could build the design and mockups (I'd be happy to implement them). I would be up for setting it up, and for getting the initial code going, but I won't have time to build it all.
Mon, 26 Dec 2011, 05:28
Afr0	I could do file uploads... at least in php, I know how to do them! -=-=- Afr0 Games Project Dollhouse on Github - Please fork!
Mon, 26 Dec 2011, 05:39
JL235	Then you could fork it, make your changes, and then push them. File uploads was just an example I pulled off the top of my head; there would be tonnes of technical bits in the backend which would need to be added. One thing we really would need is the current DB structure. This doesn't need to include any content, just how it's laid out. Any new site must contain all of the existing content, and knowing the DB structure might help avoiding some idiotic mistakes (although probably not).
Mon, 26 Dec 2011, 06:05
Jayenkai	It'd be better to start afresh, do everything properly, then convert the old database over. -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
Mon, 26 Dec 2011, 06:15
JL235	What about the idea of setting up a public open source project for the new SoCoder? and the idea of a dev server too? I think it's the only real way to build this between multiple members.
Tue, 27 Dec 2011, 02:44
HoboBen	Everyone is going to hate this idea, but what about a really thin front-end to Reddit's API (i.e. offloading the database entirely)? All you would need is one worker process in the background to queue posting and updating what would then be static html fragments for the front-end to stitch together. You don't even need threaded comments if you don't like them. In future, migrating away from Reddit would only require writing an interface to a database that spits out json. -=-=- blog \| work \| code \| more code
Tue, 27 Dec 2011, 02:53
JL235	I'd be happy to use Reddit for a backend, and it makes a lot of sense. However most activity these days comes from the chat box on the front page, and I think any future SoCoder should be oriented around that. I also really the idea of being able to 'just chat', and have threads spin off from it. Like a middle ground between Twitter and Reddit. If we could build something that looked like the front page chat box, with topics/articles/etc, using Reddit, then I'd be all for it.
Tue, 27 Dec 2011, 02:58
HoboBen	Fair point -- for a responsive chat you are not going to want to use reddit as a back-end!!! -=-=- blog \| work \| code \| more code
Tue, 27 Dec 2011, 03:56
HoboBen	I don't know how much the chat has to be central, but SoCoder as it is now takes three clicks to start writing a topic: Forum > (select section) > New Topic Making this easier is important. Tagging might be dated, but adding tags as-you-post rather than picking a section before-you-post might make things easier. The tags don't have to be especially functional; they're really there as a hint not to forget to tell people what language/OS you're using. I also think we need to think about features to make SoCoder more useful to potential members (and not just another forum). Perhaps a feed on the main page, where SoCoder users submit links to indie blogs, posts from places like /r/programming, /r/gamedev, etc, with a SoCoder comment section added automatically (and like Reddit, the comment box could already be open on the page, lowering the barrier-to-comment). This would be a fresh source of news and discussion, but only if the interface to post links becomes really simple (even a javascript form that opens on the same page with URL and title). Although this is just reinventing reddit, a voting system for those links would provide some feedback on what sort of content people like (even if it's only "likes" or "+1"s and has no downvotes). --- Also, BBcode is a bit dated. I suggest full-on HTML with html purifier --- Basically, reddit, with chat and/or shoutbox, html for formatting, non-threaded comments to make Jay happy, with showcases? -=-=- blog \| work \| code \| more code
Tue, 27 Dec 2011, 04:15
shroom_monk	When you say open-source, do you mean the source can be edited by a select group of users, or that the code will be truly open to absolutely anyone on the internet? I can see potential security issues with the latter... -=-=- A mushroom a day keeps the doctor away... Keep It Simple, Shroom!
Tue, 27 Dec 2011, 04:48
JL235	shroom_monk When you say open-source, do you mean the source can be edited by a select group of users, or that the code will be truly open to absolutely anyone on the internet? I can see potential security issues with the latter... Open for everyone to view, and check out. If we use GitHub, then anyone could work on SoCoder and 'push' their changes up to the repository, but they don't get merged in straight away. A select group of users would then have to look over, and then accept these pushes, for them to make it into the code base.
Tue, 27 Dec 2011, 07:01
shroom_monk	But what about any loopholes in the site's code? If anyone could see exactly how the code was written, even if they couldn't modify it, then surely they could spot any design flaws and exploit them to hack the website? -=-=- A mushroom a day keeps the doctor away... Keep It Simple, Shroom!
Tue, 27 Dec 2011, 07:53
JL235	shroom_monk But what about any loopholes in the site's code? If anyone could see exactly how the code was written, even if they couldn't modify it, then surely they could spot any design flaws and exploit them to hack the website? In practice it's much easier to test a site for security holes, then to find them through studying the source code. Plus I'd expect most people who are studying the source code for a project on GitHub, would also be the type who would report it, or contribute in some way. Finally having the source code public, and with more then one person looking at it, raises the chances of finding bugs and security holes. So it will probably end up being more secure, rather then less.
Tue, 27 Dec 2011, 07:57
HoboBen	Compare "Security through Obscurity" with "Security by Design". i.e. instead of hoping a hacker doesn't know how something works, assume that they already do. In practice, the only difference between an obscured hole and a known hole is time. Also you have to pay for closed-source github projects. Setting up our own private git server would be possible, but then you've got an extra daemon running on a public server which is itself a new vector for exploits. -=-=- blog \| work \| code \| more code