Win8 Preview - Socoder

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Socoder -> Off Topic -> Win8 Preview
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Wed, 29 Feb 2012, 16:07
Jayenkai	.... hmmm.. My PC just took 5 seconds to boot up.. And this is the shit PC that usually takes about a minute... ... hmm... Maybe there's something to this Win8 thing, after all.. -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
Wed, 29 Feb 2012, 16:07
Jayenkai	If you can reach the server (busy busy busy!) Win8 Consumer Preview is up.. Linkage -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
Wed, 29 Feb 2012, 17:01
Jayenkai	Test post from shitty IE10. Interesting fact.. If I log in in the Metro IE10, it doesn't log me in in the None-Metro IE10.. I have to do it again. WTF is that all about?! -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
Wed, 29 Feb 2012, 18:29
Stealth	I'd say a strong lack of coherency is to blame. Windows 8 really feels like several products instead of a single unified one. Lion has this too when it comes to iOS and Mac integration. It seems like Mountain Lion is trying to fix that. -=-=- Quit posting and try Google.
Wed, 29 Feb 2012, 19:19
dna	How big is the download? Never mind I found the page. 3.5Gig is horrible. I'll wait until I hear from someone else about installing and uninstalling of the product. 11 Hours to download this thing. -=-=- DNA
Fri, 02 Mar 2012, 08:05
Jayenkai	Good Point 1. Booting PC is insanely quicker. Like WOW quick. This is the shithole PC. I freshly installed Vista (grr) onto it the other week, and it would still take about a minute to boot. It now takes (after the stupid bios crap) about 5 seconds. ... power.. tick, tick, booted!! Surprise!! Good Point 2. BlitzMax installs and runs perfectly well! Good Point 3. If you ignore Metro, you can happily get along with this. I'd usually be ranting like a fucking mentalist by this point, but I'm quite comfortable with it. It's really quite nice! .. They've still got a few months to go, though, so the actual release could still be a shithole Bad Point 1. The included colour options nearly all bugger up the readability of the taskbar, since the taskbar uses a white font, and all the colourschemes are similarly bright. derp! Bad Point 2. The whole "Metro isn't part of Windows, it's just something weird that doesn't fit, but annoyingly seems to be constantly there, bugging you." You know how annoying that bloody great big ginormous Start Menu was, when XP came along? It's like that, only it's bigger, and seems to be used to run programs, too! Bad Point 3. (this is actually more than 1, but I'm trying not to look too whingey!) Metro user interface is mindbogglingly odd. You can't drag the interface to scroll. This is SO insanely annoying! The menu scrolls left to right, but the mousewheel scrolls up and down. This is SO insanely annoying! The "grid" is in pairs, meaning if you have 4 apps more than the required 8, you don't get a single row of 4, you get an annoying cluster of 4 at the top, with a giant chasm below.. [][] [][] [][] [][] [][] [][] [][] [][] [][] [][] --v Really?! Bad Point 4. Why the hell is Explorer still not damn well tabbed?! Seriously!?!? -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
Sat, 03 Mar 2012, 16:12
CodersRule	Using it right now. It's quite spiffy. The lack of a proper start menu is going to take some getting used to, though.
Sat, 03 Mar 2012, 17:10
JL235	Yeah, the missing start menu is quite a shock. However I find it more useful. There is a term in HCI known as 'milliseconds matters', where it relates how many milliseconds it takes to do something. Studies have shown bigger buttons lower the amount of time it takes to click on something, and that this has a big impact on how people enjoy using the software. I have personally noticed that I can hit the windows key and then select say 'Firefox' in less time then it takes to open it via the taskbar or the old start menu. That is simply because of the big new application buttons. A lot of the side stuff, like the new networks bar, also takes less time to navigate since it's big and obvious. Overall I like it.
Sat, 03 Mar 2012, 17:20
therevillsgames	I cant get Win8 (32bit) to work with VirtualBox... Looks like I'll be waiting for the beta
Sat, 03 Mar 2012, 18:26
CodersRule	JL235 I have personally noticed that I can hit the windows key and then select say 'Firefox' in less time then it takes to open it via the taskbar or the old start menu. That is simply because of the big new application buttons. I always use the search in the start menu, so that doesn't really affect me. If anything, the big fullscreen start menu takes me by surprise for a few seconds before I can get around to searching for the application... XD. At least that will go away after awhile of usage. Jayenkai Interesting fact.. If I log in in the Metro IE10, it doesn't log me in in the None-Metro IE10.. I have to do it again. The two browsers, from what I've seen, are utterly separate. When IE isn't set as the default browser, the metro icon for it goes to the desktop version. When it is, the icon goes to the metro version. They act differently, and you can't even right click in metro IE. It's just odd.
Sat, 03 Mar 2012, 22:23
Jayenkai	Double clicking the icon in the top left STILL closes a window!! It's a blinkin' miracle of 1980's leftovers!! And at least they bothered to give it an icon, this time! ERRORZ IN MAI BLITZ!!!! Usability : The constant blinking of the SCREEN FULL OF ICONS everytime I hit the start button is about 50,000 times more annoying than the constant blinking of the SCREEN FULL OF WARNING that used to happen in Windows Vista every 20 mins.. Except it's happening every couple of minutes, instead.. -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
Sun, 04 Mar 2012, 05:19
CodersRule	Jayenkai ERRORZ IN MAI BLITZ!!!! I've been having that problem on Blitz3D since XP, and it happens when you paste remote code into Blitz. The font thing is a problem with the Blitz IDE, and there's not much you can do about it. Aaaand I was going to prepare a situation and show it to you in a screenshot, but I can't actually get it to work now. Do you have the latest version of BlitzMax?
Sun, 04 Mar 2012, 05:20
spinal	Removed it after ten minutes, it's just horrible.
Sun, 04 Mar 2012, 06:39
Jayenkai	Yeah, I've been keeping BlitzMax up to date since the recent Mac Lion update/breaks.. damn thing buggered all kinds of stuff up, but Mark's been doing a good job of keeping track of it all. -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
Sun, 04 Mar 2012, 08:38
JL235	I've just updated Win 8 on my laptop, and I actually don't like the new version as much as the first. It has more stuff, but lots of it seems more hidden, and less intuitive. Plus I'm having to re-learn lots of the shortcuts, and they have removed the left-side-alt-tab-click-thing!
Sun, 04 Mar 2012, 08:46
JL235	It's also really annoying that they put the IE 10 icon where the start menu used to be, so you accidentally click on it all the time. Bottom left start corner also used to always switch between desktop and metro, so you knew it would always take you from one world to the other. That was handy. It's also really difficult to find the Metro control panel. They used to have an icon for it on the Metro screen, but not now.
Sun, 04 Mar 2012, 10:56
Jayenkai	There's a control panel for it?
Sun, 04 Mar 2012, 13:16
JL235	Yup, and I've just found it. Mouse to bottom right corner -> up and click on settings -> then 'more PC settings'. It has more options, but is more ugly then the first Metro control panel they built (although that one often ignored the mouse clicks). However I would expect most users would want to reach for the control panel the first time the get PC, and that will be the first time they have used Metro. So giving a handy and exposed tile on the start screen makes sense.
Sun, 04 Mar 2012, 13:28
Jayenkai	I did kinda get a "no standard libraries yet" vibe from the Metro stuff.. As much as the "apps" feel disjointed, there are also "this isn't the same" quirks, too... Like how in the store, tapping the top of the screen brings it to the top of the list (which isn't on top, 'cos it'd horizontal), but that doesn't work on the newStart... Very odd, and felt somewhat "wrong"... -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
Sun, 04 Mar 2012, 17:00
dna	Does the download you installed expire?
Sun, 04 Mar 2012, 22:00
JL235	Almost certainly. It did with previous versions of Windows, and you have to be use a public CD key.
Mon, 05 Mar 2012, 06:59
Jayenkai	That settings thing scrolls up and down.. FFS, Microsoft, you've made this Metro "wide scroll!" decision, now at least try to damn well stick with it!! Half one, half the other, it's a bloody great big stonking clash of randomness Borkage : My oldy CoolEdit Pro doesn't like it Damned if I'm upgrading, the newer "adobe loves you" version will throw buckets of stupid red icons all over my clean Win8 system, and cause multiple "Have you updated, today!?" popups every time I boot the system. Integration should definitely be their focus, from this point.. "Sticky Notes" still sit on the Windows desktop. It'd be nice if you could pin little notes on the newStart, too. Borkage : Crap, now BFXR's not working, either.. I have NO tools on here, to add sounds to this game!!! Quick, Jay, to the huge archive of previously used AGameAWeek sounds!! -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
Mon, 05 Mar 2012, 09:20
JL235	I don't see the scrolling as an issue. The side scrolling apps clearly side scroll, because content gets obscured on the right hand side. Vertical scrolling apps are clearly obscured at the bottom edge. The only annoying aspect I have is that the start screen only scrolls if you scroll the middle section. If you scroll at the top or bottom, nothing happens. I find it quite easy to scroll in the wrong place.
Mon, 05 Mar 2012, 14:14
Stealth	I'm pretty skeptical about Windows 8. Microsoft is completely changing their flagship product. It's risky. When Vista flopped, Apple saw many converts. That was back when the Mac was a baby. Microsoft can probably afford another Vista incident and they have plenty of loyal followers who wont jump ship, but they are risking converting even more people to Macs. Mainstream consumers really listen to the tech crowd. The tech crowd has spoken and it isn't flattering. They will preach that you really don't need to upgrade from Windows 7. This is going to severely hurt Microsoft's sales. I do see one strong point for Microsoft. If tablets really do take over mainstream consumer PCs, they are in a really good position with Windows to power these things (much better than Windows 7). The desktop could fade away in to a pro tool and tablets and phones running Windows will make a nice pair. That being said, Apple clearly has an advantage with the iPad and iPhone. It's the apps. I have no idea how any company is going to overcome that. -=-=- Quit posting and try Google.
Mon, 05 Mar 2012, 15:04
JL235	Stealth When Vista flopped, Apple saw many converts. I disagree. At the time the iPhone was brand new and redefining the smart phone, and was a huge success. That is why so many people have taken an interest in the Mac. In marketing it's known as the 'halo effect'. Stealth They will preach that you really don't need to upgrade from Windows 7. The thing is, this happens on every version of Windows. There were articles on why you shouldn't upgrade to Windows 7, and the same for XP when that came out. Both were huge success stories (especially XP). But I agree it is a huge risk, and tbh it feels a bit like the Chrome book. Awesome idea, but a tad too early. Tablets are successful, but they are far from everywhere. I can't help thinking that if this came out a year from now then everyone would be raving about it, since tablets would have become more ubiquitous.
Tue, 06 Mar 2012, 14:24
Stealth	I think these are the two biggest issues with Windows 8: - Multitasking sucks. It's hard to switch between Metro apps and the Metro/Aero switch is nauseating. Pulling up Metro apps alongside others is primitive and basic. It's called Windows and using them was an ingenious way to multitask. - Metro apps suck. They are colorful but are terrible UI/UX. Many of them need completely redone. I think resolving these two issues would clear up most complaints. The first one would require major changes. I would get rid of the new start menu on the desktop version and instead allow users to install Metro apps like Windows 7 apps. The tablet version can keep it. Apple is taking the approach of writing a mobile, tablet, and desktop version of the app. They don't look exactly the same but they do the same thing and provide a much better experience. Microsoft should copy this approach. Using a mouse on a touch screen app just sucks. The second one--I don't know. Metro is the problem. iOS and Android offer clear interfaces by using controls people are used to. The user interface is intuitive. Metro is not intuitive. It breaks from the norm way too much. That's not even the worst part. Microsoft has their head up their asses and is pretending like Windows 8 is great. That's just scary. -=-=- Quit posting and try Google.
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