You got Cake in my PHP

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Socoder -> Off Topic -> You got Cake in my PHP
Sun, 06 May 2012, 08:41
CodersRule	Is anyone here experienced with CakePHP? How did you get past the steep learning curve that comes with using such a peculiar framework in PHP? I’ve never used a MVC framework before.
Sun, 06 May 2012, 08:41
JL235	I've not used Cake, but I've heard terrible things about it. Kohana is meant to be much better for PHP. MVC though is pretty straight forward, and makes a lot of sense once you get your head around it. It's also pretty predictable, which is useful for big sites. Code Igniter's user document starts with an excellent breakdown on MVC, which applies to most web frameworks. Although Code Igniter it's self isn't that great. It's documentation is one of the very few awesome qualities about it. The main issue with MVC frameworks is the level of 'magic' they provide, that 'just happens' to work and do stuff for you, with no direct reason given as to how or why. Rails is what I started with, and it used to do this a lot, but I've heard they have toned it down in recent years. Rails is an awesome framework, but it's magical qualities were easily the hardest bit of it's learning curve.
Sun, 06 May 2012, 09:13
CodersRule	I was getting confused looking at the Cake docs, just because, like you said, the "magic" is a bit too much for me. I can't tell how I'm actually supposed to be getting stuff done if it's all being done for me. I'll look into Kohana. My main goal here is to start programming PHP sites the "right" way, because PHP in general is pretty messy.
Sun, 06 May 2012, 13:47
JL235	Tbh, don't use PHP. It's a really horrible language. I'd recommend you get started with Rails, or you could try out Sinatra. Sinatra is pretty slim, but offers a very clean basic structure for a site. Although a little magical, there are good reasons why people rave about how amazing Rails is. You could also have a look at TodoMVC. It's the same Todo app, built using different JavaScript web frameworks. You could use it to get a taste for any JS frameworks you like the look of, and try out one of them. Seriously, don't use PHP. It's just horrific.
Sun, 06 May 2012, 16:39
CodersRule	The issue is that everything supports PHP, and at this point I don't have the ability to use everything else. Trust me, I want to stay as far away from PHP as possible: but in some circumstances, like the ones I'm in right now, I don't really have a choice.
Sun, 06 May 2012, 18:33
steve_ancell	JL235 I'd recommend you get started with Rails Right!, I know I'm gonna sound dumb here, I know that phpinfo() tells me if PHP is included with a webspace host package but how can I find out if Rails is included?, I have heard that Rails is the dog's bollocks but I don't know for certain unless I try it for myself and I would really be interested in giving it a go.
Sun, 06 May 2012, 19:42
Afr0	The issue is that everything supports PHP Everything what? There's CGIC for C, Django for Python and Rails for Ruby. -=-=- Afr0 Games Project Dollhouse on Github - Please fork!
Sun, 06 May 2012, 19:44
Afr0	I have heard that Rails is the dog's bollocks I sincerely doubt that it could be worse than PHP. -=-=- Afr0 Games Project Dollhouse on Github - Please fork!
Mon, 07 May 2012, 05:40
steve_ancell	Afr0, the phrase "dog's bollocks" means something is good. LOL
Mon, 07 May 2012, 05:44
steve_ancell	OK, I will rephrase my original post... I've heard that Ruby on Rails is good but I don't know where to start.
Mon, 07 May 2012, 06:29
JL235	Take a look at XAMPP, I believe that comes with Ruby on Rails. I've not tried that myself, but XAMPP is excellent, and I'd be very surprised if it goes wrong. Personally I setup Ruby and Rails manually, but it's a nightmare to get right. The issue is that if I say 'use Ruby', do I mean JRuby, Ruby 1.8 or Ruby 1.9? Those are the main versions, and each have differences, and work well with different versions of Rails. If you want to go down this road, I'd just find a tutorial online, and stick religiously to what versions of Ruby and Rails they pick. But the official Rails site should be able to help you get started.
Mon, 07 May 2012, 06:45
steve_ancell	Thanks for that DD, I have got XAMPP and I was completely unaware that R on R was included. LOL I will have a look into it later.