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Socoder -> C/C++/C#/Other -> C# tutorial

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Posted : Saturday, 11 August 2007, 15:49
ingenium
Halo, Halo...
Here it is my daily problem:
I want to learn C#. I took a look (got a look / had a look / or what it is...) to Lazy Browse by Phoenix and I got amazed.
I don't know how to make a similar application so I want to learn how to. Can you post some useful links to C# compilers and tutorials? I think garand can posts something...

Posted : Saturday, 11 August 2007, 17:18
JL235
First, C# can be compiled but it is often slower then when interpreted. So instead it is commonly 'just-in-time' compiled to CLI (Common Intermediate Language) and then run by the CLR (Common Language Runtime).

I personally learnt C# by just messing with Visual Studio after first learning Java. Java is VERY similar to C# so you could look at Java tutorials too. I'd recommend just messing about with Visual Studio and searching around the C# home page. There are bound to be some tutorials about somewhere on the MSDN.
Posted : Saturday, 11 August 2007, 17:26
mike_g
They are doing a C# workshop on game-dev. Its been going for a while now, but you should still be able to join if you wanted to.


Posted : Saturday, 11 August 2007, 18:16
Scherererer
Download Microsoft Visual Studio Express Edition (FREE!)

Once you download it there are some good links in the help>how do i? menu, and you can also try checking out The Code Project for other tutorials.

-=-=-
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Computer Science Series: Logic (pt1) (part 2) (part 3) 2's Complement Mathematics: Basic Differential Calculus
Posted : Sunday, 12 August 2007, 08:42
Phoenix
The Code Project has some excellent articles and some that are completely useless, which aren't very hard to spot, fortunately. I started out by doing what DiablosDevil said; just messing around in Visual Studio and searching on Google about how to do the things I wanted to know. Usually, just sticking "C#" before the other search words gives you a few good results.
Posted : Sunday, 12 August 2007, 15:26
Nolan
If you know another major language like Java or C++, C# should be extremely easy for you to learn. What exactly do you want to accomplish with C#?

Murach's C# application programming book was awesome, and O'Reilly's C# in a Nutshell is a must have. Neither are geared towards gaming.

-=-=-
nolandc.com
Posted : Sunday, 12 August 2007, 16:23
ingenium1
ok... I downloaded Visual Studio 2005 Express Edition.
I made this: NotePad
As you can see it is not complete.
A little explanation to whom who doesnt understand Italiano:
Apri = Open
Salva = Save
Salva con nome = Save as

Now... here it is my problem:
how can I make a "open" windows form to pop up when I click Apri("Open")?
I searched in "add windows form" but I didnt find anything similar to this windows form...

-=-=-
Roger Federer is go(o)d.
But he is not alone.

Just relax... sometimes there's no need to argue.
Posted : Sunday, 12 August 2007, 16:35
JL235
I don't know really know .NET too well, but there should be a specific class for making file open windows which will handle all the file selecting for you.
Posted : Sunday, 12 August 2007, 17:00
ingenium1
Solved.
Posted : Monday, 13 August 2007, 08:02
abc
C# is one of the worst languages ever.
It was the microzz version of Java.
Anything copied is worse than the model.
Use Java, instead, which is a more powerful language.

PS: the notepad you 'did'..
You just used the WYSIWYG to build the GUI, then visual studio made the code for you...
This is exactly why you didn't know what to do next..

LOSER! (also, try to do something, at least once, without copying it..)
Posted : Monday, 13 August 2007, 08:35
Phoenix
You should keep your mouth shut; obviously you don't know much about C#. I'd like to hear in what way Java is a more powerful language than C#.

And don't complain about the Visual Studio interface, it was made for RAD and it fills that purpose quite well, I must say. Spending hours creating windows and buttons in code is tedious and repetitive work, which VS completely removes. There's no need to do that just for the sake of having it done "hardcore" way.

You should also drop that attitude, we don't need you to complain and bash on beginners.
Posted : Monday, 13 August 2007, 08:46
mike_g
Anything copied is worse than the model.

Haha, going by your logic you must 'know' that Java is shit compared to C++, otherwise you would be a hypocrite

At the end of the day nearly all good new technology is modeled on the best stuff around. Its called progression.
Posted : Monday, 13 August 2007, 08:47
abc
I didn't complain, just pointed out a few things.
https://www.veridicus.com/tummy/programming/java_vs_csharp.asp
https://www.manageability.org/blog/archive/20030520%23p_the_problem_with_cameron/view
For more documents, just search on google.

C# allow you to do winzz development, but nothing more.
Other languages such as Java and C/C++ allow you to do almost, if not all, everything you can do with a PC.

Also, the WYSIWIG, ..
It *could* be useful, but it fakes the coding role of the developer.

Posted : Monday, 13 August 2007, 09:01
abc
@mike_g: it's not progress, as microsoft did its own Java version just to sell it.
And it is not 'modeled' on Java.. it is 'copyied'.
There is a slight difference between the 2..

Posted : Monday, 13 August 2007, 09:06
abc
Also, I personally use C++, as I KNOW it is the best languages currently available.

I don't like Java, but I know it is way better than C#.
That is a fact.

Posted : Monday, 13 August 2007, 09:13
JL235
C# is really quite different from Java. I've read many programmers actually say it is closer to C++ (such as the ability to write unsafe code which allows the use of pointers). It's also adopting many functional ideas, also missing from Java. Besides I don't hear you bashing IBMs Java VM, J# or J++. What about them? Are they not stealing?

This notion that it's a copy is nonsense. If C# copied Java, then Java is just a cheap copy of C++, which is a cheap copy of C, which is a cheap copy of B (I presume B copied something else). Programming languages are based on previous languages, but they change add or remove stuff. It's how they evolve.

I agree, your attitude is rather harsh. There is nothing wrong with thinking a language is terrible (I think Blitz Basic is terrible). It'd just be better if you voiced real problems and concerns you have with C# rather then just slating in general.

Also GUI builders are very useful and these days there is less and less of a reason to code the actual GUI parts. Saying 'you are not a programmer unless you write every line of code' is pretentious, arrogant and just plain wrong. But I agree it is essential to be able to code them by hand simply so you do know how the code works. But he's just starting out in C#. The topic is called 'C# Tutorial'. A few posts up he had never written a single line of C# before. Take a hint!

Visual Studio has possibly the best GUI building tools, ever. VS was one of the main reasons I used to program in C#. NetBeans 6 is pretty damn good, but it's still not VS good.
Posted : Monday, 13 August 2007, 09:20
Phoenix
Ever heard of Mono? C# is cross platform. But you still didn't point out any features Java has that C# doesn't. You gave me some links that other people have written. The first link leaves out many differences, such as delegates. The second link is irrelevant, since it measures speed, (which isn't what we're discussing) and it is subjective. There are of course other articles that prove the opposite, which favors C#. The truth is that their speed differs based on the task, Java is fast than C# in some areas and vice versa.

I still don't see what you're basing your claims on; you say that Java is much more powerful than C# but can't really point out the difference.

And Microsoft didn't copy Java, it's like mike said, they modeled their language after Java. Following your logic, C is just an ALGOL rip off, since that's where most of it's concepts originate.
Posted : Monday, 13 August 2007, 09:23
JL235
C# is also free, not sold. The professional version of VS is sold, but can also be obtained for free for students and academics for personal non-profit reasons (that's how I got my copy).

Besides I could also point out lots of other sites showing lots of differences between Java and C#, and a very nice paper that proves Java can be significantly faster the C++. There is no best language, but there are safer languages which allow you to do more work in less time.

Seriously, why don't you back up your claims? What makes C# a copy of Java?
Posted : Monday, 13 August 2007, 09:27
abc
Yes, the languages you cited were all copied from Java, but this topic was not about them.

Java didn't copy C++, nor C++ copyied C.
C and C++ have standards.
They are different languages, even thought C++ was made compatible with C, and actually is something like an extended C, but C++ introduced so many new features, that you cannot say it copyied it.

Programming languages are based on previous languages, yes, but are not copyied from them.

"Also GUI builders are very useful and these days there is less and less of a reason to code the actual GUI parts. Saying 'you are not a programmer unless you write every line of code' is pretentious, arrogant and just plain wrong. But I agree it is essential to be able to code them by hand simply so you do know how the code works" This is almost correct.
If you code all by hand it is nicer.
I mean, many guys code just to sell software, and these coders would like coding to be easier and easier, so to be able to make no effort at all.
I think coding should be pleasing for a coder.
Your sentence summarizes this. A coder should be able to code GUI. Then he could use an editor, but a coder shouldn't use things he doesn't know how they work.

I had meant that he created his 'notepad', and posted it.
Actually the software couldn't do antthing, it was just the GUI.
I wanted to stress that he didn't code that program, visual studio coded it for him.
He just decided the layout, and compiled. ALL the code got generated from visual studio.

I wish I were clear enough.
Posted : Monday, 13 August 2007, 09:38
Phoenix
You still haven't mentioned what makes Java so much more powerful than C#.

Coding pleasure comes when you don't have to write hundreds of repetitive lines of things you already know, when you can focus on the meat of the application/game. I agree that it is necessary to understand what the code does, but writing a full GUI by hand is just stupid when tools like the VS form editor exist.
Posted : Monday, 13 August 2007, 09:45
abc
As I wrote on my previous post, it's ok to use an editor, but you'd have to use it once those hundreds of lines would become repetitive.
They are not so repetitive for a beginner, aren't they?

On my previous post I've focused on "I had meant that he created his 'notepad', and posted it.
Actually the software couldn't do antthing, it was just the GUI.
I wanted to stress that he didn't code that program, visual studio coded it for him.
He just decided the layout, and compiled. ALL the code got generated from visual studio."

Then, Java vs C#.. I've posted a few links.
They are quite interesting, read them.

Posted : Monday, 13 August 2007, 09:46
JL235
abc I wanted to stress that he didn't code that program, visual studio coded it for him.
He just decided the layout, and compiled. ALL the code got generated from visual studio.

And?

I'd like to say that again for emphasis: and?

So what? Yes he should know how to code it by hand but he can learn that next week, or the week after, or maybe never. If he doesn't, it's his loss not yours.

abc but a coder shouldn't use things he doesn't know how they work

That is not what I was trying to say. I use lots of things I don't fully understand. I'd say a good feature or library doesn't need to be fully understood. My sentence actually summarizes as:
Summary There is nothing wrong with using a GUI builder, but it's best if you learn the code too.

From what I can see, he's following my advice to the letter. Which he doesn't have to do cos it's just an opinion.

Finally, my points about languages copying each other was sarcastic. As there is no tone in text it might have been hard to convey and might not have been clear. My point was C# has copied Java in the same way C++ copied C. Influences and similarities yes, but they are different languages and not actually copied.

I ask again, how is C# the same? As someone who regularly uses Java and thinks it is a great language, I'd also like to know: how is Java more powerful?

|edit| You first link is pre Java 5. A lot has changed since then. As usual Wikipedia has a lot more insight into this matter.

This topic is getting pretty trivial and approaching borderline childish. So I don't want to push this further from 'C# Tutorial' to 'C# vs Java'. If you want to discuss that then I think you should make the appropriate topic and further discuss this there. |edit|

Posted : Monday, 13 August 2007, 09:59
abc
"I'd like to say that again for emphasis: and?"
I just wanted to stress it.

"That is not what I was trying to say. I use lots of things I don't fully understand. I'd say a good feature or library doesn't need to be fully understood. My sentence actually summarizes as:"
What's the funny in coding things by not knowing what there is under?
The funny of coding is this, to learn!

"My point was C# has copied Java in the same way C++ copied C"
You cannot say that C++ copied C. It has no sense.

The C# vc Java thing was just introduced to comment the C# tutorial request.
If someone asks help on a language, users are free to say their opinion about the language being discussed.
The real kernel of my post was the 'i'm using visual studio. i've used the WYSIWYG to make an app, with no code of mine' thing.
This is the approach he showed in his posts.

Posted : Monday, 13 August 2007, 10:24
JL235
There was an interesting topic on Ruby forum once where someone wanted to know a comeback argument he could use in a discussion he was having with someone. It was about if Ruby is truly object-oriented or not. The person he was arguing against was saying it was not object-oriented because conditional statements, such as the if statement, were not objects.

The majority of the posts agreed that the person should argue with more intelligent people. Unfortunately I only post on SoCoder so I guess I can't follow that suggestion.

But my point is many of your questions about my comments and opinions have been answered in my posts. For example:

abc You cannot say that C++ copied C. It has no sense.
In my previous post, try reading the next sentence.

This is a circular debate which seems more about creating hassle then actually discussing anything. He can use a GUI builder if he wants to. You don't have to use a GUI builder if you don't want to. You have conveyed your opinion about it and so have others, but this is getting out of hand.

Finally, I don't mean to nit-pick, but he didn't actually say if he used the GUI builder or not. So we are arguing over your presumption of how someone made his first C# app? For all I care he could have coded it whilst taking a dump.

Unless someone wants to actually discuss C#, I will not be replying any more in this topic.
Posted : Monday, 13 August 2007, 10:31
abc
C++ was not 'influenced' by C.
This also has no sense.
C++ was a REAL evolution from C.
This cannot be applied in the case of Java and C#.

"first C# app?", yes, the first.
Having download visual studio the same day..
I know that guy, he doesn't learn, the only thing he does is to copy.

Posted : Monday, 13 August 2007, 10:39
JL235
abc I know that guy, he doesn't learn, the only thing he does is to copy.

BINGO!

I knew this was personal. It has nothing to do with programming, it's just a personal attack. I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it all!

|edit| I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it, I knew it... |edit|
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