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Socoder -> Web Development -> Learning WebDev

Posted : Monday, 20 February 2012, 05:26
spinal
web programming, which should be learned first? -- javascript, html, php, sql... ?

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Posted : Monday, 20 February 2012, 05:26
Jayenkai
I'm probably not the best one to suggest this, but IMO, they all kinda go together.. You learn a piece of one, and that slots into another, like some kind of crazy set of Ikea pieces that don't look like they'd ever fit, but inexplicably do once you get just the right shaped screw!

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Posted : Monday, 20 February 2012, 07:09
Afr0
Learn PHP first, as it can be used to extend webservers to do things they weren't meant to do (such as facilitate patching).
Don't bother learning Javascript, it's a steaming pile of shit.

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Posted : Monday, 20 February 2012, 07:18
Jayenkai
Nah, you need the Javascript to do the AJAX stuff.. It's all part'n'parcel.

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Posted : Monday, 20 February 2012, 08:44
Evil Roy Ferguso
I mostly agree with Jayenkai, but if you don't know HTML yet, I think you should get a decent handle on HTML / CSS before you delve into the others too far.

Although I disagree with Afr0's advice to not learn JavaScript, I do not necessarily disagree with his assessment of the language. That having been said, don't use JavaScript for evil, as many of your forebears have.
Posted : Monday, 20 February 2012, 09:09
JL235
This is like asking "should I learn C++, C# and Java for building desktop apps?". It depends on what you are building.

If you want to build a blog, then you can just use Wordpress, and you only need to know a tiny amount of PHP to do this (most of which you can copy from examples). In this scenario you only truly need to know HTML and CSS, which you should learn in tandem.

If you want to build your own dynamic site where people can login and post things, like SoCoder, then you can do this with no JavaScript. Even if you do use some JS in places, most of the time it's so small it's something you can learn/copy as you need it (especially if you use jQuery).

In that scenario I'd learn PHP and HTML first, and then move on to HTML and CSS as your site begins to come together.

If you want to build a web game, then you only need to know very little HTML and CSS, and again you can just copy what you need from resources online. In this scenario you only need to know enough HTML to get you to the point of writing JS, and then that is what you should concentrate on learning.

PHP is only needed if your building a site to host it on (which you can leave till last), or if you are talking with the server.

If you want to be a professional web developer, then you need to learn all of them!

In all of those examples, SQL is only needed if you are storing items yourself, manually. Lots of frameworks can hide most of this away for you, like Ruby on Rails, allowing you to never write any SQL (YAY!). However with some of those libraries you still need to know the concepts behind SQL.

However of all the languages mentioned, SQL is the one that crosses the most domains. Plenty of non-web developers use SQL on a daily basis, and there are plenty of non-database applications which use an SQL-like language for getting out data.

I'd advise you learn SQL when it's needed, and not a moment sooner. It's pretty trivial to use, and you tend to use the basics for 99% of the queries you ever write.

In practice for any of those scenarios, you cannot learn them individually. You will need to learn them together.

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Posted : Monday, 20 February 2012, 11:47
spinal
currently I'm maybe half done in a web game, using a handful of html + css for the display, javascript for the main code, which in part work by editing the stylesheet.

I would like to get into web dev, but currently I know a little of each, not yet enough to be confident in using either though.

PHP and javascript seem very C like to me, I can plod through although I do rely on google a little to remind me of most of the commands etc. but structurally it doesn't seem too hard. html is, well, html, not much to say about that. I'm starting to get to grips with CSS, however, defining things in a different place to where I'm using it does take me quite far away from my BASIC roots. As for SQL, currently (after a look through my notes to remind myself) I can (could) happily create a table, enter some records and query them back in all sorts of useless ways that I can't imagine ever using.



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Posted : Monday, 20 February 2012, 11:56
Stealth
This is the most logical order:

HTML > CSS > JavaScript > PHP > MySQL

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Posted : Monday, 20 February 2012, 12:11
Jayenkai
lol

I do find myself wondering if you might just be better off using DD's PlayMyCode thing instead.
I know it's great to learn this stuff, but DD and his brother have done a crapload of groundwork, and it's fantastic to play around with it. (And it's luvly and basic'y)
If nothing seems to fit, meither DD, and he'll see what he can do. (although he's suddenly gotten quite busy recently, doing little guest spots and things )

As for the "a bit here, a bit there, another bit elsewhere" stuff, that's pretty much what killed my interest in HaXe.. Couldn't deal with that shit! too messy!!

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Posted : Monday, 20 February 2012, 13:42
spinal
PMC doesn't work on iDevices very well, but that wasn't really what my question was about

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Posted : Tuesday, 21 February 2012, 21:17
mindstorm8191
On the subject of learning SQL, I also found it pretty much useless - until I got into web development. SQL doesn't become powerful until you're working with it through your code, instead of a command prompt. From your PHP pages you can easily siphon data from your tables, organize it with your queries, and utilize it to your needs extremely easily. Then you get into writing your queries based on code variables, and it becomes more powerful.

SQL is also ideal in a language like PHP, because you don't have to keep reloading data to use it. As soon as the page is done displaying, the 'application thread' of your PHP file ends, so loading constant-use data isn't worth it.

Hope this helps

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