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Socoder -> Blitz Max -> 64 Bits

Tue, 13 Nov 2007, 18:48
dna

I've been over to the BB site and there a discussion that was brief concerning 64 bit support for BMax.

There will be None.

I guess that makes it a dead end language of sorts.

-=-=-
DNA
Tue, 13 Nov 2007, 19:29
Scherererer
Not really... I haven't identified any games as of yet that are x64 based. Very few people are even using 64-bit machines to begin with. If it becomes more common convention to use x64 programs and machines, then they will change their mind, but for now, its next to useless to take advantage of x64 unless your program is going to be a complete memory-whore and needs to take up that much RAM.

-=-=-
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Tue, 13 Nov 2007, 19:30
Nolan
I guess that makes it a dead end language of sorts.


In what way?

-=-=-
nolandc.com
Tue, 13 Nov 2007, 20:12
power mousey

huh!??

dead end?
what do you mean by that, dna?

Looking forward to your explanation
and also to your talk.


Tue, 13 Nov 2007, 23:55
JL235
Only high end professional applications and operating systems are taking advantage of 64-bit. I really don't see why people would be asking for 64-bit.

|edit| Not even Crysis has a 64-bit version. You also need to remember your OS needs to support 64-bit for you to take advantage of it. Most people run 32-bit versions of Windows. |edit|
Wed, 14 Nov 2007, 02:51
Afr0
Very few people are even using 64-bit machines to begin with.


That is, IMHO, not true. In my experience, nearly everyone are going for x64 CPUs today if they are upgrading or buying new machines alltogether. I think that the highest possible spec you can get for none-multicore CPUs today is something like 3.5 ghz. But if you go for a multicore CPU, you can get up to (at least) 2x2.7 ghz.

-=-=-
Afr0 Games

Project Dollhouse on Github - Please fork!
Wed, 14 Nov 2007, 03:38
JL235
I believe the fastest (in terms of just ghz) Intel multi-core processor on sale I believe is a 3.2ghz core 2 duo. Even then you could overclock it further. I believe their high-end quad cores are at around 3ghz, but obviously can be more powerful if the software takes advantage of the extra cores.

I agree with Afro that pretty much all CPUs on sale now are 64-bit and I would be surprised if the next version of Windows wasn't 64-bit as standard. But I don't think that is what Instinct was saying as I think he meant that the majority of people are still using 32-bit processors in their machines, which I'd agree with.
Wed, 14 Nov 2007, 07:54
Fluke
But I don't think that is what Instinct was saying as I think he meant that the majority of people are still using 32-bit processors in their machines, which I'd agree with.


That may depend if you're talking of casual users or general PC gamers. Out of the 8 or so local friends I know who are fairly normal to hardcore PC gamers, nobody has had a 32-bit cpu for probably at least 2 years now. More casual gamers may be different of course..
Wed, 14 Nov 2007, 08:00
Jayenkai
Unix Timestamps will require 64-bit numbers in the year 2038. (shit! I'll need to update Socoder!!!!! Argh!)

Other than that one reason, (And keep in mind that Blitz doesn't actually use those, and instead stored date+time in strings) why else would you REALISTICALLY need 64-bit numbers in YOUR games?

Discuss...

(I know that's not specifically "64-Bit" related, but surely BMax runs just fine on a 64-bit processor anyway, doesn't it?)

-=-=-
''Load, Next List!''
Wed, 14 Nov 2007, 08:20
JL235
There are some performance differences, but that is mainly down to the OS and the CPU. I'm pretty sure 32-bit programs run technically run slower in a 64-bit environment. But as I say, technically.

Including my PC, my family has 5 computers. Mine is the only one with a 64-bit processor. I also agree it depends on if your a PC gamer or not. As most people aren't and only use their PC to check FaceBook, they don't need to upgrade.
Wed, 14 Nov 2007, 11:07
HoboBen
As someone who is still happy checking their e-mails on a Pentium II machine (Damn Small Linux!) I guess I'll shift onto 64bit in 2038 then

Anyway, I suppose 64 bit is extra development effort for Blitz Research with not much benefit. Who needs more than 3.5GB of RAM for a game? Someone who needs to optimize!

-=-=-
blog | work | code | more code
Wed, 14 Nov 2007, 12:28
JL235
I could use that much RAM. One version of my Java ray-casting engine ran at around 200fps with a resolution of 640x480. That is phenomenally faster then Afro's and any others I could find online. Most were not even close to half as fast at 320x240.

However one 64x64 texture would take up around 180mb of ram. I had made a lookup table of the textures at loads of different scales. So I was just drawing 640 1 pixel wide images for each frame.
Wed, 14 Nov 2007, 12:36
dna
That Damn Small Linux looks good.

It makes an old machine still useful

-=-=-
DNA
Thu, 15 Nov 2007, 15:57
Afr0
That is phenomenally faster then Afro's and any others I could find online. Most were not even close to half as fast at 320x240.


I don't remember ever making a raycaster?

-=-=-
Afr0 Games

Project Dollhouse on Github - Please fork!
Thu, 15 Nov 2007, 22:46
JL235
I just picked a name at random, maybe it was Mike_G.
Fri, 16 Nov 2007, 04:19
Fluke
Not even Crysis has a 64-bit version.

Apparently, it has. Info here and here.

Will it actually make a difference? Guess we'll get to find out today...
Fri, 16 Nov 2007, 06:10
Toaster
Crysis has a 64 bit version trust me on this i have the demo and there are two exe's one says folder says bin32 and one says bin64. Also Bmax its a 2D engine only and I cant think of any reason for a game program to need 64 bit in 2D. Thats like asking for a race car to go from your living room to your bed room. You dont need it..

Half-Life 2
Lost Coast
Bet On Soldier: Blood Sport
Codename: Panzers (Phase one)
Colin McRae Rally 2005
Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay
Far Cry
Fahrenheit
Shadow Ops: Red Mercury
Unreal Tournament 2004
World of Warcraft
WWII Tank Commander
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Shadow of Chernobyl
Dreadnought

All these games have native 64 bit modes as well. Source bellow:
www.start64.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=190&Itemid=1
Fri, 16 Nov 2007, 10:40
JL235
Wow, I stand corrected. However I would presume that is primarily for Windows 64 compatibility. For example one of the Splinter Cell games doesn't run full stop on Windows XP 64.
Fri, 16 Nov 2007, 10:59
Fluke
From the interview regarding the 64 bit version:

"The main benefit for the game is that with the expanded virtual address space available Crysis is able to load the entire level texture memory into memory (using both video and main memory), which gives both higher quality and a performance improvement."