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Socoder -> Off Topic -> SoPolitical : European Union

Fri, 25 Jan 2013, 06:08
Are you for or against?
Why, why not?
Fri, 25 Jan 2013, 06:35
Is that your entire post? Really?!

For the most part, I'm actually for a unified government, but it's a shame it isn't a complete global government. Instead it's all a bit picky, and half-assed.
If it were global, and stubborn enough to do it's job, it'd help get rid of all these stupid laws all over the world, that are making people's lives a shithole. On the other hand, it'd probably cave in, and make everyone else's lives similarly shit instead.

I dunno.. When something works well, then it's doing good. But if it's already half of what it could be, then it'll never quite get up to the level it should.

''Load, Next List!''
Fri, 25 Jan 2013, 06:57
My position is that I'm glad that Norway is only part of the EEC, but I wish we weren't even part of that.
Through it, EU keeps passing a bunch of laws that makes life miserable for workers and people in general here.
All in all, EU to me seems like a really undemocratic system where the biggest countries have the most to say, meaning that small countries like Norway don't really benefit anything from being a part of it.
Many people in Norway want to just have a regular trade agreement with the EU, and I for one am happy that Mr.Cameron has issued thoughts about voting for or against the EU in 2017, as it will influence our politicians as well.

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Fri, 25 Jan 2013, 08:16
Just as when you try to make a movie that appeals to everybody it becomes bland shite that appeals to no one, if you try to make a government that governs everybody it will be oppressive to everyone.
Smaller government is always better, not larger.

All the raw, animal magnetism of a rutabaga.
Fri, 25 Jan 2013, 16:30
Star Trek has the answer. For a federal galaxy. Down with the Dominion!

But seriously...

One the one hand EU rules have been used to undermine workers' conditions as a "race to the bottom". It's also demanding austerity in Greece and Ireland. It's a deeply undemocratic structure.

On the other hand, the only reason Wales has any money at all for programmes and infrastructure is because of the EU.

Ho hum.

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Fri, 25 Jan 2013, 17:02
It don't matter what kind of government we have, there will always be a greedy load of fat cats licking the cream off the top.
Fri, 25 Jan 2013, 18:01
I would add it doesn't matter if we are in or out; people will complain about Europe either way.

Personally I like the position we are currently in. In the EU, but not fully tied to it economically. The Euro is just not tenable, simply because different countries are in different economic circumstances. It's like trying to build a building where one half is built on top of concrete, and the other half is on top of sand.

The other issue is that certain countries, such as Greece, just haven't invested their money wisely. Big projects, which couldn't be maintained over a long term, and in some cases had no real use. Such as exhibition buildings being left empty after their first use.

15 years ago when we were debating if the UK should join the Euro, it was silly. It felt like the EU was just trying to spread the Euro as much as possible; get as many to join. That isn't a sensible way to build an economy. It's also been shown by the fact that certain countries were allowed in, when they didn't meet the entry requirements laid out.

In conclusion, too many people are promoting the EU based on ideology, rather than for practical reasons. Being half in allows the UK to have the benefits of the EU, without the full blown ideological crazyness.

One of the big issues I have with the EU however, is immigration. I really don't like that we essentially have a big wall around Europe, saying those inside are free to come, and those outside have restrictions. That is fundamentally unequal. I don't know what the solution would be, but immigration is a great thing, and has helped to define this country. It's just not right that if two people are identical, hard working, have no criminal record, but one is born in China and the other in France, then they have different restrictions.